tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post3488782305287643961..comments2023-09-22T03:20:25.172-07:00Comments on pfamilygal: Gospel and LawTamarahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06085186813410325845noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-12879551094832940202011-03-31T14:17:32.345-07:002011-03-31T14:17:32.345-07:00I haven't heard any outright declarations of t...I haven't heard any outright declarations of the inadequacy of the blood of Christ. I have picked up a theme though, consistent in several authors' works, that minimizes the acceptance of/belief in Christ's finished work on the cross and instead emphasizes Christ's call to social justice and kingdom living. <br /><br />While I strongly agree that we are to live differently and Christ has come to turn the world upside down by radical living, I think the work of the cross cannot be underplayed. We are utterly depraved beings totally dependent on the cross to reconcile us to our holy Creator.<br /><br />Any wind of theology that stresses a way of living over the work of the cross is a return to Law IMO. If we are being told that Christ's work was more than just the cross, if it is playing nice and being good, then we are returning to Law and works.<br /><br />I can't point to a specific passage, but the impression I get from Bell and McLaren is a "come with us while we try to live like Jesus" call, while forgetting the part where we are vile sinners in need of a Savior. The seem to stress Christ's redemption of our behaviors/attitudes over our salvation and reconciliation with our Father.<br /><br />I guess I wouldn't lump Donald Miller as far over on the emergent spectrum as many others. I do enjoy his works, though they use a lot of emergent church imagery (journey, community, experience) that you do not find in more traditional orthodox writings. I haven't found much in his stuff that I don't agree with, however.Tamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06085186813410325845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-4758462944135759922011-03-26T19:56:37.565-07:002011-03-26T19:56:37.565-07:00just catching up on blogs... Donald Miller is pret...just catching up on blogs... Donald Miller is pretty opposed to be lumped in with the emergent church crowd. He's never identified himself as such and blogged about how that is frustrating to him.Anna Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623013797835397745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-15565839500959949492011-03-19T20:03:41.628-07:002011-03-19T20:03:41.628-07:00Tamara, this is Brian btw.
I totally agree with y...Tamara, this is Brian btw.<br /><br />I totally agree with you. I guess the emergent church stuff I've read hasn't said, 'Jesus blood is not enough for salvation.' Is that what you are saying that you have read? If so, I'd say that author is not Christian at all - which would make them totally irrelevant.<br /><br />May I ask, what books said this?B and Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12790267988767110355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-88045300382810038522011-03-19T12:36:44.730-07:002011-03-19T12:36:44.730-07:00great post Tamara! I've been listening to pod...great post Tamara! I've been listening to podcasts from whitehorseinn.org and you are talking about similar things. :)Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162714926703800643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-49986735130179397712011-03-18T16:19:43.433-07:002011-03-18T16:19:43.433-07:00I agree that we still need more community, Kylie (...I agree that we still need more community, Kylie (or Brian?). That our Western Christianity is a pale substitute for what could be. <br /><br />But what can I trust in if all roads lead to Heaven? If ultimate redemption and reconciliation of me (a wretched sinner) with my Father (a holy God) wasn't worked out in whole upon the Cross, then where is it worked out? <br /><br />The emergent Church philosophy is a return to the Law because it lacks whole-hearted trust in the finished work of Christ. If we are just trying to become good like Jesus, we might as well try to be good like Ghandi or the Dalai Lama. But Christ alone has the power to reconcile us to a holy God.<br /><br />I don't believe in one-time, pray-this-prayer-and-you're-in salvation either. Jesus invited us to take up our crosses and follow Him. I believe the working out of our salvation is an ongoing process and our "believing and confessing" should be ongoing as well. <br /><br />I think some circles of evangelicals have done great damage with the sinner's prayer, making it a spiritual inoculation of sorts. "Get your God card punched and you're in!" God has called us to radical salvation and devotion. And we have sold a cheap substitute.Tamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06085186813410325845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-38635791894021367752011-03-18T15:51:12.853-07:002011-03-18T15:51:12.853-07:00I think your response is a little too simplified. ...I think your response is a little too simplified. I appreciate the Emergent Church's emphasis on community. the American church that I grew up in was very interested in my 'individual salvation' and often in church we didn't really interact with others - 'go to church, and then go home.' I do agree that some of the Emergent Church authors go a little too far, but I feel it is just one of those pendulum swings. There is a lot of great truth to what they are presenting. Such as, salvation isn't just a one-time event, it continues to grow and develop (i.e. sanctification). That process happens not in isolation, but as a group. And the Church is God's institution for changing the world/community around us. I think those are all good reminders. PS I really don't think any of them are arguing for salvation by works...as far as I understand them.B and Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12790267988767110355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-57581517559578887142011-03-18T11:10:55.648-07:002011-03-18T11:10:55.648-07:00bravo, tamara! well said :-)bravo, tamara! well said :-)Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932119838113244830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-13793144161617409282011-03-18T10:38:53.258-07:002011-03-18T10:38:53.258-07:00I think the "emergent church" needs to g...I think the "emergent church" needs to get back to the original Church!sophiaofthracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16067901674637218841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-27831195406795844452011-03-18T09:23:53.847-07:002011-03-18T09:23:53.847-07:00Amen, Tamara.Amen, Tamara.Kimberly Gesweinhttp://gesweinfamily.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12457504.post-66395737536586350882011-03-18T09:20:14.046-07:002011-03-18T09:20:14.046-07:00I love reading your blog :)
Grace. And Love. And s...I love reading your blog :)<br />Grace. And Love. And sacrifice. And justice. All these things are part of the beautiful sacrifice of Christ's blood on the cross.wordstolivebymommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16379182880692376112noreply@blogger.com